Right to be in the surroundings

In ‘Faith related boycotts’ the question was raised how a Christian had to tackle other faithgroups and should try to build up a state where love and peace are of the first order, giving freedom for everybody around them.

In ‘Leaving the Old World to find better pastures’ and ‘Men of faith’ we had a closer look at the founding fathers of the New World which was to go to offer Freedom for everybody. But we noticed the danger that many living in that New world are wanting to see a state which their forefathers wanted to escape from.

Sayings of the founding fathers

The contemporary inhabitants of the United States perhaps overlook certain sayings of the Pilgrim Fathers and of the first presidents of the United States.

At the beginning of the new state there could have been many men fearing God, and probably they could be in the majority when you would compare them with today’s population in the United States.

Embarkation of the Pilgrims by Robert Weir a c...

Embarkation of the Pilgrims by Robert Weir a copy is also located in the, United States Capitol rotunda, Washington, DC (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In an interview released last week with the Washington National Cathedral’s magazine, Cathedral Age Mitt Romney outed his believes that “some” Americans have taken the separation of church and state too far, “well beyond its original meaning.”

According to Mitt Romney those who “seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgement of God” aren’t acting in line with the Founders’ intent.

Romney said the Founders didn’t intend for “the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation ‘Under God, ‘and in God, we do indeed trust.”

Many of those who fled the Old World were indeed God fearing men, who had full trust in God. They went into the footsteps of their Patriarch Abraham, following the God in who he had put his hopes. But in their home country they had seen what religion had done to humankind. The hopes many offspring of the faith-group of Abraham had were shattered to pieces owning the effects of the false teachers. The Pilgrim Fathers were aware of the many wars, the horrible bloodshed which were made in the Name of God. Many were also aware that the many denominations often were not a blessing but more a curse for creating a liveable state.

It is not because they were real men of faith, that they did want to have the faith interfering with the construction of the land.

Deist Founding Father Thomas Jefferson said: “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” and wrote to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814: “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

First President of the United States George Wa...

First President of the United States George Washington, one of the Founding Fathers known to have grown hemp prior to prohibition (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

The 1st U.S.A. President George Washington said: “The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.” Clearly the idea was that the church should not dictate the government how to rule the country. They had seen enough at home in Europe with what churches could bring over people and how such power could be misused.

Fearing God and dogma’s

It is not because they wanted the freedom to pray in the house and to honour God like they wanted that they wanted the government or others to dictate the way how to live according to their laws. They wanted in the first place to live according to Gods Laws and then to the Laws for making it possible that people of all sorts of cultures could live together.

Those founding fathers did know very well the different dogma‘s of all those other travellers.  On the ship from the Old to the New World they had time enough to get to know the different faiths of those people who had encountered difficulties in their own region because of what they believed. On the ships, having time to discuss with each other they also were astonished about the many stories and ideas others had about the same holy figures. For many the voyage was a sort of revelation. They even started questioning how they could have been so stupid to have been lured in so many fairy tales. They started to see that millions of fables, tales, legends, had been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed. (Compare the writing of Founding Father John Adams, in the letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816)

All the problems  the many different churches caused at the Old Country they wanted to avoid. And also Benjamin Franklin found Christian dogma unintelligible. “Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.” he wrote. (Toward The Mystery) For him it was clear that religion could even be a danger for the community. He wrote: “Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another.”

Right to practice faith

When the Americans look at their Constitutional First Amendment that states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”  they should understand the deeper layers of the idea of freedom their founding fathers had.  The phrase quoted gives the people the right to practice their faith without the fear of government directing their faith based actions.

The founding fathers believed in God, but they also trusted Him to make sure that they could live in a world under His eye, which could be open to all sorts of men. But many of them were sure that no matter what happened, those who would walk in the line of God, would be the ones to succeed.

File:Constitution of the United States, page 4.jpg

Fourth page of Constitution of the United States, notated at the Constitutional Convention. (05/14/1787 – 09/17/1787) – National Archives and Records Administration

“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

In case the founding fathers really wanted to have God as the base of the constitutional law and wanted Christianity to be the basic faith why is God not more mentioned? You would think that if the framers of the Constitution felt that Christian values were important to the establishment of this country and the Constitution itself, they might have mentioned something about it within the document. The truth is that the United States Constitution is one of the most truly secular founding documents ever written and with the French constitution is able to offer the most liberating Law.

The Pilgrims audaciously proclaimed that “every … church is strictly independent of all uninspired authority.” (Nathaniel Morton, William Bradford, Thomas Prince, Edward Winslow, New-England’s Memorial (Boston, Congregational Board of Publication, 1855), 422.)

Those who proclaim today that it was the intention of the founding Fathers to have Christianity as the base of the construction of the country do not understand the Christian thinking of the Founding Fathers and the reasons why the fled the Old Country. Getting in the New World they did really want to create a whole new world, not making a copy of the so called Christian World they knew from Europe.

They had taken the courage to go for freedom and no church or any religion was going to stand in the way. Their greatest desire now, was to be completely free from the coercive power of the church-state. Freedom was thus understood as emancipation from coercion, from the arbitrary power of others. Moreover, at every juncture, the American pioneers chose to root this understanding in the biblical text. In Jesus his teachings they could find enough reasons to create an open structure for other believes.

Only when the government does not interfere with the teachings of faith, but takes care that every body shall be able to follow his or her favourite teachings, would there be a possibility to have a liberty of expressing the believes by not offending some one else.

Many of the first white people in the New World knew the stories about the Good Samaritan and others where Christ compared one person behaving different than the other.  In the many parables Jesus Christ taught lessons how to behave on this earth and how to treat others. He had the Golden Rule to do to others like you would love that others would do to you. The apostles taught their disciples to become like Christ.  Teaching them go for the beauty of holiness, the expression of worship, something which breaks through from inside, and can convert others. Psalm 115 reveals that men become like the God they worship bringing those worshippers to Godlikeness.

Task of the government

It is not up to governments to make the people afraid of one or other god. Some may think the Government has made priests, rabbis and imams afraid to teach about the necessity to live according to the Laws of God.

As it has not been the will of the founding fathers of the United States to restrict Biblical teachings it also has not been their idea that a government would be able to lawfully force a person or business to provide a service or product that would be in direct conflict with their state-members belief system.

Every person should be free to go where he wants,  to follow education or to work where he wants. Everybody should have the free right to choose, but cannot expect that others have to choose the same things, or have to be constantly to be confronted with his or her choices.

So the people should make a difference between a public,  a private and a religious place. the same should they be able to see and to make the difference between faiths.

Wanting to be popular or not

In my previous posting ‘Faith related boycotts’ I mentioned certain shops which preferred to be popular in the world and others who wanted to show the world their way of thinking according the Christian spirit. It is the consumer’s choice to buy or not to buy something regardless of what the product is… be it coffee, chicken sandwiches or insurance. But the consumer may not forget that by buying or by refusing to buy or use a certain product this would make it possible to have the continuation of the production of that product and the possibility to survive for that company, or to make that no false concurrence can be made and that those who want to do good can survive when the one not working according to the will of God should taste the defeat.

The ill-mannered can only continue when he feels he is liked and gets support. When improper activities are left aside they shall disappear in the mist of oblivion. The ones moving around in the world, shall have to drink, eat and consume different goods. When they take care that the values of the Creator are respected, the world would be a better place. When they do take care that those who do not show respect for nature, the environment and the workers, there products shall not be bought, they’ll soon have to stop producing. It are the consumers who have to decide.  Though capitalism is all about supply and demand, it are the consumers who make it work or fail. In the system of producing it is the Government which may give guidance or show its preferences, and should protect the inhabitants of their state (humans, animals and plants).

A state offering asylum, prosperity and freedom

Patrick Henry stated over 200 years ago at the beginning stages of the New World: “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”

Today many Americans do seem to forget this openness to other religions. They do not seem to trust the values they can put into work, to make successful businesses. They have forgotten that they themselves should be the persons to put their ethics and Judeo-Christian values in the first place, so that they can offer others a good habitat were they should have to fear nothing.

Danger-zone of funding

They also forget that they have a lot in charge and choose their own government by allowing people to come more or less in the picture. Already for several years in the United States they have a very dangerous system of funding the presidents-candidates. Business got interwoven in the politics and those persons who do not have enough funds are not able to go for a place in the politics. As such the doors are wide open for corruption and bribery. And the democracy is at large, in great danger to loose its virginity.

Mitt Romney at one of his presidential campaig...

Mitt Romney at one of his presidential campaign rallies. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Not afraid of religions

Instead of being afraid of certain religions they better would look at their voting system and the cleanness and integrity of their political figures.

A real Christian is afraid of God and not of other religions. It is all-right that they may want a country under the guidance of God. But they cannot demand that their Bible should be the supreme law that all governments must obey, when they themselves cannot live up to all the Laws written in the Holy Scriptures. When there are so called Christians who call out: “I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good” (Christian Republican: Randall Terry)  then there is certainly something totally wrong with that Christianity or with the country where there are living Christians who can call up for hate.

Those rancorous (so called) Christians shall be doing more damage to the State than good. The danger is that their hatred shall make them blind. And other very handy politicians shall make good use of that.

They may think that they are “called by God to conquer this country” but are forgetting that all inhabitants received their being on this earth by the grace of God. Every one which is around us, is there because God allows him or her to be there. So we should respect the choice of God and allow that person, no matter what belief he or she may have in our surroundings.

As the founding fathers got to know the different Christian denominations and the dangers of having one or another denomination in power, they preferred to have a secular state where everybody could have any faith, not only the Christian faith, and certainly not of one particular Christian faith.

Those who want to go in line with the founding fathers should nourish that freedom of religion and cherish the separation of any religious organisation and civil organisation. Keeping State and Church separate.

Also later important American figures like Martin Luther, John Locke, and Roger Williams— religious men who, even if they never used the term “secularism,” saw the hedge as a necessary precondition for the ultimate religious liberty: the right to worship freely and without intervention. “The care of souls does not belong to the magistrate,” wrote Locke. “The care therefore of every man’s soul belongs unto himself, and is to be left unto himself.” For that to happen, the state’s power must end at the church’s door but at the other hand out of the church door everybody should be free to live according to his or her values, and use symbols, as long that they do not harm the others.

+

Read also:

Mitt Romney & The GOP: Against Founding Fathers & Support Christian Nation (Like Hitler – See Quotes)
“It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what one does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime.”   — Thomas Paine
+

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”  — Founding Father James Madison – chief architect of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights

How is the Republican Party and Mitt Romney like Hitler?  They want God in Government.

”I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord’s work.” — Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

“With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew.”— Christian Republican: Bailey Smith, Christian Coalition

“The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.” — Adolf Hitler, Berlin, 1933, first radio address after coming to power

“I don’t know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” — Christian Republican: President George H.W. Bush

Separation of Church and State…Is that Possible?
During the last year I have come to realize there are many events where a conflict between my faith and my government exists.
+
Last time I looked the USA is still a republic.  So, if we truly are a republic and over 70% of Americans are Christian with Christian values, why are the elected officials enacting laws and placing taxes (or are they now fines?) on The People based on a value system that goes completely against their faith?  I have heard many say faith is out of date and the laws and traditions of certain religions are really archaic.  I have also read where many practicing Christians don’t agree with all of their church’s teachings.  So once again, bouncing back to the issue of faith, I have to ask…

++

  1. Men of faith
  2. Leaving the Old World to find better pastures
  3. Built on or Belonging to Jewish tradition #1 Christian Reform
  4. Built on or Belonging to Jewish tradition #2 Roots of Jewishness
  5. Built on or Belonging to Jewish tradition #3 Of the earth or of God
  6. Built on or Belonging to Jewish tradition #4 Mozaic and Noachide laws
  7. Which back voters in the US wants to see
  8. Christian values and voting not just a game
  9. Liberal and evangelical Christians
  10. Judeo-Christian values and liberty
  11. Religious Practices around the world
  12. Fear and protection
  13. Faith related boycotts

+++

  • David Barton’s junk history a grave threat to our secular future (secularnewsdaily.com)
    The past causes the present and the present causes the future.That in a nutshell explains the importance of history to our lives. Studying history helps us understand how we came to be where we are. It helps us map our future by comparing our paths to the successes and failures of past civilizations.So when those posing as historians pass off blatant falsehoods as legitimate history–and people actually begin to believe it–we should be very alarmed.

    Unfortunately, Americans throughout the country are being fed a false version of history that attempts to downplay bedrock American values like the separation of church and state, and teaches instead that the United States was founded as a “Christian nation.”
    +
    If the “war on religion” is being waged with false information it’s more important than ever that the truth about our country’s history is not overshadowed by lies.

  • It Doesn’t Take Common Sense To Know…The United States is a Secular Country (zazenlife.com)
    it is evidently clear that the United States is in fact a secular country. Obviously, that does not mean the United States doesn’t have religion. Quite frankly, it has more than it should. What I mean by saying the United States is a secular country is that our country is not founded on a specific set of religious values. Within the last few years, there seems to have been a resurrection of the idea that the United States is a Christian nation.There has been an unfortunate wave of Christian conservatism that has been embraced by a lot of people in this country and although it may be a minority, the people who are of this Christian conservative school of thought are in high and important places.
  • You can’t separate politics and religion… nor should you try. (boilingthefrogs.wordpress.com)
    It takes intentional deception or just plain ignorance to believe that our Founding Fathers intended or would tolerate any restrictions on religion. They did place heavy restrictions on Government…. restrictions that have been blatantly and repeatedly violated, shredded, burned, beaten, stabbed, electrocuted and sodomized by government.
    +
    no matter if you like it or not…. and no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate politics and religion.  More importantly, and contrary to the secular-left hand-wringers who hyperventilate at the mere thought of Christians… the result is not ‘one extreme or the other.’ In fact, even in the perfect Judeo-Christian world, Judeo-Christian teachings do not call for a theocracy, nor should it. But no one has EVER addressed this highly volatile subject more beautifully or more wisely than our Founding Fathers.
  • Mitt Romney Attacks The Line Separating Church And State (crooksandliars.com)
    Mitt Romney is the highest-profile Mormon politician in the history of the Latter-Day Saints Church. Since I’ve been exploring and writing aboutthe subject of Romney’s beliefs and how they will shape him as a president, it’s not at all surprising to me that he’s speaking out against separation between church and state.Remember, a Mormon such as Romney performed his perfunctory duty by fulfilling his two-year mission work obligation. Not many people realize that the prime directive of Mormon mission work is to convert people to the LDS faith. Many of us are accustomed to Mother Teresa and the sort of mission work she did, which was to help the poor and struggling people across the world. It’s a noble act, but trying to convert someone is hardly noble. It’s a recruitment tool, much like what Scientologists and Jehovah’s Witnesses use to entice members into joining their flock.Now Mitt Romney has become the quintessential Mormon Church recruiter, as influential and broad-reaching a figure the Church has ever had, outside of Joseph Smith himself (and perhaps Brigham Young).
  • The Secular Revival (chasdarwin.com)
    “Later this month, as Republicans flock to Tampa, Fla., to crown Mitt Romney their candidate for president, they’ll be greeted by a billboard mocking Mormons for believing that God is a space alien. Democrats, congregating shortly thereafter in Charlotte, N.C., will scarcely enjoy a more hospitable welcome: A sign awaiting them will feature Jesus’ face seared onto a piece of toast, along with the assertion that Christians—a group that includes President Obama, despite vicious and insistent rumors to the contrary—worship a “sadistic God” and a “useless savior.” Both billboards are paid for by American Atheists, an organization that describes itself as “the Marines of free thought.”
    +
    Complete separation of church and state, as history shows, is an impossibility anyway, and accommodationism—which argues for some allowances of religion into civic life, such as the current federal support for faith-based initiatives—is not without its merits. To regain prominence, secularists need to be known, once again, for a nuanced understanding of the past and inspiring ideas for the future. Berlinerblau’s book, erudite and warm and not without humor, is a great step in this direction.”
  • Were the American Founding Fathers Christians?(greenreview.blogspot.be)With one or two exceptions all of the Founding Fathers were deists and not, repeat not, Christians. In addition to that almost all, if not indeed all, were involved in the highest echelon and ranks of the Freemason Craft.

About Marcus Ampe

Retired dancer, choreographer, choreologist Founder of the Dance impresario office and archive: Danscontact-Dansarchief plus the Association for Bible scholars, the Lifestyle magazines "Stepping Toes" and "From Guestwriters" and creator of the site "Messiah for all". - Gepensioneerd danser, choreograaf, choreoloog. Stichter van Danscontact-Dansarchief plus van de Vereniging voor Bijbelvorsers, de Lifestyle magazines "Stepping Toes" en "From Guestwriters" en maker van de site "Messiah for all".
This entry was posted in Christianity, History, News and Politics, Religion and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

23 Responses to Right to be in the surroundings

  1. Pingback: Stichters van de Nieuwe Wereld en Godsdienstvrijheid « Christadelphians : Belgian Ecclesia Brussel – Leuven

  2. Pingback: Bridge builder Obama | Marcus' s Space

  3. Pingback: People of Faith for Obama video « Christadelphians : Belgian Ecclesia Brussel – Leuven

  4. Pingback: Life is to precious « Belgian Biblestudents – Belgische Bijbelstudenten

  5. Pingback: Follower of Jesus part of a cult or a Christian « Christadelphians : Belgian Ecclesia Brussel – Leuven

  6. Pingback: Victims and Seekers of Peace | Marcus' s Space

  7. Pingback: Migrants to the West #9 Where they came from | Marcus' s Space

  8. Pingback: Migrants to the West #10 Religious freedom | Marcus' s Space

  9. Pingback: Trusting, Faith, Calling and Ascribing to Jehovah #6 Prayer #4 Attitude | Christadelphians : Belgian Ecclesia Brussel - Leuven

  10. Pingback: Catholicism, Anabaptism and Crisis of Christianity « Stepping Toes

  11. Pingback: Preparing for an important election | Marcus' s Space

  12. Pingback: Religions and Mainliners | From guestwriters

  13. Pingback: Not holding back and getting out of darkness | Stepping Toes

  14. Pingback: Not holding back and getting out of darkness | Stepping Toes

  15. Pingback: 30 things to start doing for yourself – #6 is vital. | Stepping Toes

  16. Pingback: Inequality, Injustice, Sustainability and the Free World Charter | Marcus' s Space

  17. Pingback: An anarchistic reading of the Bible (2)—Creation and what follows | Stepping Toes

  18. Pingback: Man in picture, seen from the other planets | Marcus Ampe's Space

  19. Pingback: Letter to a Non-Christian Nation | From guestwriters

  20. Pingback: A Royal Rule given to followers of Christ | From guestwriters

  21. Pingback: Leaving the Old World to find better pastures – Belgian Ecclesia Brussel – Leuven

  22. Pingback: The clean sweeper of the whole caboodle | Bijbelvorser = Bible Researcher

  23. Pingback: American Christianity no longer resembles its Founder | Stepping Toes

Feel free to react - Voel vrij om te reageren

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s